Friday, October 24, 2008

Poll Result: Taxes and Fairness

Is it better to:

Lower taxes to achieve more money 71%, (5-2)
Raise taxes to achieve "fairness" 28%

Well I guess there is still a lot (28%) of envy out there.
Posted by Common Sense Joe at 12:41 PM
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13 comments:

MsAnthrope said...

You want people to vote in your polls and then you make derogatory remarks about those who don't agree with you. Not a good way to win friends and influence people. BYW I didn't vote so I'm not trying to defend myself. I'm just here to show you the error of your ways. It's my job! LOL

October 25, 2008 at 1:16 AM
Common Sense Joe said...

Well, how else would describe people who would rather lose revenue just to institute some type of "fairness".

October 25, 2008 at 10:37 AM
Anonymous said...

Today on my way to lunch I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money." I laughed.
Once in the restaurant my server had on a "Obama 08" tie. Again I laughed as he had given away his political preference--just imagine the coincidence.

When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need--the homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed from my sight.

I went outside, gave the homeless guy $10 and told him to thank the server inside as I 've decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful.

At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn even though the actual recipient needed money more.

I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.

October 25, 2008 at 12:06 PM
MsAnthrope said...

Joe, you missed my point entirely. The people you that you make comments about will no longer want to vote in your polls, rendering your polls inaccurate and useless. I don't think you started the polls just for that to happen. It looks like media bias, which we know you don't like. Just report the results.

October 25, 2008 at 4:25 PM
Common Sense Joe said...

I understood. Just wondering why they voted that way.

October 25, 2008 at 5:27 PM
Anonymous said...

Let's make a deal: How about starting with Congressional and Presidential salaries? Bush got twice as much salary as previous presidents. Let's reduce that to minimum wage plus $1. Same deal for members of Congress and their staff. Also, let's eliminate all government and Congressional and Presidential pensions. Let government workers buy 401k's on the open market. They can even privately pool their donations if they want. Save us all a titanic amount of cash.

It's not like every single member of Congress and every president doesn't become a multi-millionaire after leaving office, if he wasn't before he walked in!

I promise you, they'll still be a long line of people who sign up to run for office.

October 25, 2008 at 6:28 PM
Anonymous said...

Because it's a power trip.

October 25, 2008 at 9:44 PM
Anonymous said...

anonymous, your example is flawed, the waiter should not be complaining that you gave the tip money to the begger, that is not redistribution of wealth that is usurpation of the waiter's Constitutional rights to organize and form a union, forcing the owner of the restaurant to include the the 10% tip in the bill to you so you don't have that choice to pay or not pay the waiter, that's how they do it in some European countries and it works, people still go out and eat and pay the tip, though the downside to the client is that the waiter doesn't have to humiliate himself in order to get a tip, though that's an upside to the waiter.

The Republicans in their blind support for the military industrial complex and oil corporations have been far more socialist than the democrats as concerns redistribution of the wealth, they have been robbing the poor and middle classes since Nixon taking from the poorer classes and giving to the richer classes...all classes should be allowed to keep the fruits of their labor not just the super rich...that's oligarchy, that's fascism.

October 27, 2008 at 4:38 AM
Common Sense Joe said...

Under the Republicans, the Rich pay a greater percentage of the total income tax. Less tax rates equal more tax revenues.

BTW, the "TIP" is "To Insure Promptness". This, in a way, is a profit-sharing plan. Since the waiter deals with customer, the better the experience for the customer the more the waiter makes. A good experience benefits the owner by bringing people back or increasing the amount purchased. The 10% provides no incentive or disincentive for the waiter. Any business, like McDonald's, can institute a no-tip policy and just raise prices across the board 10% if they wish. But a good waiter will make more than 10%. I tip 20% for good service. And I have tipped over 50% on small bills.

October 27, 2008 at 11:58 AM
Anonymous said...

yea whatever but the example is still flawed as an example of wealth redistribution for the same reasons I stated before, its still up to the waiters to negotiate with the owners how they get paid, they (both workers and owners after negotiation) decide if they want tips included in the bill or not, not the customer, in a true free market system. You should read Nobel Prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz if you still don't understand.

October 27, 2008 at 12:07 PM
Common Sense Joe said...

I think you misunderstand Anonymous' story. He, as customer, represents an outside force, i.e. the government, in redistributing the wealth of the waiter.

October 27, 2008 at 12:18 PM
MsAnthrope said...

Guess my view of the world is different than other people's. To me the waiter gets a salary from his employer for doing his job. Anything I choose to give him is a bonus for service beyond what his regular duties are. So if I use anonymous' amount $10, then that "wealth" is MINE to distribute as I see fit. It never belonged to the waiter if it never left my pocket and went into his hands. This is not "redistributing the wealth of the waiter."

October 27, 2008 at 9:37 PM
Anonymous said...

Well maybe you were never a waiter msanthrope yet often the waiter works for below minimum wage because that is the market, that is all there is out there, there is no choice, most people wait tables because they can't get a better job, for many its a choice between feeding their children or waiting tables. The employer knows this and takes advantage of this situation, especially in economic downturns, often an employer can hire a waiter on just the promise of tips alone especially in economic recessionary times, where tips make up 70 to 90% of the salary. This can be humilating for a waiter or waitress as he or she has to "suck up" to a client's rude behavior if she or he wants get paid, i.e., a tip could be 90% of the income...a better system is when the waiter has at least minimum wage or a 10 to 20% tip included in the bill, allowing the waiter or waitress to not countenance rude or humiliating behavior in order to get paid...

to Joe you misunderstand the example not me, the customer represents the customer not the government, the government's role in a Republic, like America used to be, before neo con Republicans turned it socialist, (socialist for the banks, oil companies, military industries,etc,that is) is to regulate, enforce laws and assure life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...for all its citizens and nothing more...under our law, our Constitution, waiters should have the right to organize (pursuit of happiness) and Congress the right to impose a minimum wage or "living" wage (life & liberty), a wage that forces employers to pay more than slave wages if they want to have a business that uses human labor. In China there is no minimum wage (thanks to American pressure, by the way, the Chinese wanted a minimum wage and we opposed it) so slavery exists in China (thanks to American corporations, check it out its true), people are paid just enough to eat and sleep in a shack (that's why we import more than we export)...is that what you want for America, Joe?

In the above example the Client did not "redistribute" wealth he "stole" money owed the waiter for service, that his employer is not obligated to pay either, since there is no law forcing the "tip" to be paid, the waiter in effect becomes slave labor at that moment...the client is in effect "stealing" from the waiter and giving money stolen from the waiter to the begger. The tip system is a an easy way to enforce servitude on the waiters, (the tip system is unconstitutional) the government's role is to pass laws forcing the employer to find other ways or incentives to ensure good service from his or her waiters and waitresses, not the threat of not being paid, the employer should have the right to fire employees for illegal behavior but not withhold 90% of their pay.

In fact redistribution of the wealth is a false concept it doesn't exist in reality at least from rich to poor, if that were the case there would be no poverty, if it exists at all, history shows redistribution has always gone from the poor to the rich, which explains the enormous poverty,... the above example is socialist propaganda, socialism for the rich or ruling or employer class that is.

I am against socialism unless it is European type socialism which is really not socialism at all but rule by law or true Republicanism which, today, the Democratic party is closer to than the Republican party in America.

After Republicans (true socialists for the wealthy class) destroyed our economy , watch Democrats (true conservatives equally for everyone) bring our economy back to life, it will take a year or two but in two years watch the stock market rally again led by clean energy.

October 28, 2008 at 5:43 AM

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